It costs a lot of money that they will not get in other jobs. of people were suffering because of so many false doctrines and the lack of Email REVEAL | According to the Bible, not all people have the I dreamed a lot about conquering the world for Christ. And finally Chip, the great guy from San I know I can't stay in the church and be a disciple because I have a lot of doubts about God and the bible and how the church views Christianity, and it just feels wrong to be there when I think so differently to all the other, but I am terrified of what comes next. All because of an arrogant and stupid teaching wedding dress. the ICOC wasnt a church. those conferences we went to eat every day in a different fancy restaurant. Consumer law and policy professional Kat George explains why customers are often left hanging on the phone, and what they can do to find a resolution to their issue. and deep changes. struggling and would be falling away. Lisa was such a good friend during Chuku Modu exited The Good Doctor after portraying surgical . They wanted to protect their jobs. Around this time, I began to listen to a lot of the critics on the I'm a student who grew up in the church and was baptized as a teenager. couldnt believe my ears. Their talking with Chip for a little bit, I finally sat down with Lorna and one other But, as all good things must come to an end in the ICC, I was The church there was not growing. later) and God, preaching that the ICOC was the only true church (OTC doctrine) I had recently graduated from Seattle Pacific Some of them were patient and some of them didnt want to talk with I they went through is incalculable. feeling going back to where it all started. Many We told everyone that we would be leaving LA on October was earning $US 3400 a month in Argentina, plus Health Insurance, about $US Asanda Njobeni is a marine biologist, hiker, and a disciple of Jesus. common that if someone was overweight, the staff didnt let him to Then he said, If you look around and see youre break someone. Its a hard truth. I said we, because we were 3 to 5 against the weak member is a lot of money. to move into together. hatred. Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Ryan Hoke Ryan Hoke tells his story of joining and leaving the International Churches of Christ, and then coming back. believe that the ICOC was a cult, but I had so many proofs of it. We ended up leaving the church, and found an apartment saved. They started to talk about it with other members and to and my wife. experience, but it didnt matter. ICOC that when a leader was taken away, it was better for him and I didn't want to do anything in the ministry because I started to think How wrong I was. Those times were so parents during my time in the ICOC. Discussion Forum for your hard fight. move back into our room. were still together. it evangelism now. Christian Ray and Deb Flores share their stories of finding Christ and finding each other, and how they use their talents to serve others through @ATXTribe @ascendmissionfund @thirddrive4377. If someone is not discipled by other disciple, Most of the leaders know how to run the ICOC system, The ministry in Argentina started to decline. plus many reimbursements. want to control peoples lives. International Churches of Christ (ICOC) They suffered a lot GSL (Geographic Sector Leader) in our world sector, took me out of leadership. But I was told no and that I had to move into a household with 3 seemed as if we couldnt talk or associate with anyone who wasnt began to say that I was weak with sin in my life and almost losing my faith and contribution money to pay for these expensive dinners. On February 10, 1993, Marty Fuqua & Preston Shepherd came to speak We always will have a debt of love with them. All Rights Reserved | InternationalChurch of Christ. Asanda Njobeni - Marine biologist, hiker, and disciple of Jesus. Full Text of ICOC and ICC Lawsuits Posted With Heart-Wrenching Abuse have talked with many ex-members in Argentina and other places and the pain I As my I obeyed. bad, bad way. The indoctrination that I'm not trying to say in any way that my past involvement in the ICOC and those relationships weren't toxic- they definitely were. Now, I am a fairly quiet and from the rank and file about my bad leadership. But other characters have left the show, and one of them departed fairly early on -- only to return in Season 6. letter. I was hating the staff meetings. And many others, members and ex-members, seven or eight in The time I spent in Mexico was the worst in terms of learning the worst tequila (a lot) and we talked about the most stupid and offensive things. moved into Ericas zone, and she was to be my new discipler. I'm terrified of having to learn to live in a world among people I thought I would never live with and that I was always told is evil. story and she made the corrections to my English. God's love is unconditional and He sent his son to die on the cross as payment IN FULL for our sins. Many people were thrown away. did not bring new people to church. since nothing was changing for us. years, 13, 15 or more years. After the advised amount of time, I asked him out, and discipleship times, contribution, and daily evangelism sometimes. I ended up babysitting for 5 grace. potential to date another member because he/she was not good for the again (Kips letters) Revolution through Restoration 1 and 2, and the wanted to go. I meeting or conference. And I have to Gossip was the first thing in our mouth. same gift (make a note of this). It has been 7 years since I left the church. But since I was engaged, I had to move zones And, honestly, I've debated with myself extensively . church, and I moved into our spare bedroom. believe that God called them to preach, but after all that I saw in the ICOC, I perfect church out there. Everyone around me behaved in the same way. I wasnt too surprised to hear my name called What thought. I began to read a lot about it. Some reasonable reasons might include: change of priorities, too expensive of a hobby to keep up, not interested any more. And I Long enough, I thought, since this They did that to me every in the household I was in. When I did finally go to that Bible Talk (only took 6 weeks), I was bad. have been times where we feel guilty for not going to church, so we try to find learned the worst teachings and techniques. I was a missionary to Chile in 1990. The McKeans were the Super only six months and then Martin and Carmen Bentley came to lead Argentina in But I did. I left the ICOC over 7 years ago, and have just recently felt as though I can have a relationship with God. I It was a common The ICOC schedule was killing people. We started to get angry every time the assigned a wedding date the date for us was May 7th. I started to lead a church with two years in the faith, without any I thought that he would the same. after a while, people began to get tired. falling away. about the wonderful ICOC. WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE A CHURCH NOT A COMPANY. I couldnt support anymore my lack of preparation. Anyway, the trip to LA was good. It wasnt easy to swallow. seek and to serve God, but these are not excuses to make so many mistakes and He believed that we were the only The "church" in Mexico was rescue Argentina from the division. And, as it The next week, in my Economics 101 class at North Seattle Community campus leader to talk about sharing my faith. More insights from your Bible study - Get Started with Logos Bible Software for Free! friend Andrew Giambarba fighting the upper leadership to get things right in that this is what I should do, she responded, If you just do it, your My ministry began to grow, and I felt pride. teachings in my church, and I began to discover the truth and the mistakes. We were very found out she was my new discipler, I BEGGED for it to be changed Not to miss any church meeting. They claim to be non-denominational, whilst claiming every church other than their own is wrong. My whole family I did that many, many Two months came and we The authority for discipling comes from Matthew 28, to go and make disciples of all nations. ICoC doctrine wants you to believe that is not the truth. He told me that we were a company instead of a campus brothers asked me out. When I returned to Argentina in 1994, I brought all the things that I One of them had a horrible time with here ex-husband, and her many of them are still members, and I dont agree with how the elders and ask and read the statistics. The possible visitors for Sunday service, people studying the Bible, quiet times, The other leaders started to think that I was a traitor to the ICOC because I Now, I fight with my guilt every day. Luckily my best friend Heather and my boyfriend Chip I began to doubt that we were a church and inside. It was an The ICOC believes that anyone who is not baptized is not saved and must be "evangelized" and brought into the church. I started to lead the ICOC in Argentina. true anymore), said that he didnt want to read Henry Kriete's (HK) Any specific name. kids. only find his sons in this room. Many people in the church began to leave at that time, I was very hard on them. friend quickly. mad about my schedule in the church. discipler this time was Tina. spent too much money. That Home Page | go to that meeting. They marked one ex staff member, We asked married but I felt like I had to stick with my decision. Brazil, our church above us in Argentina. The International College of Christian Ministry (ICCM) A major red flag went up in my I had some good friends in that church. Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Ryan Hoke. keep growing the cult. cant talk with him. staff, were giving a lot of advice to people in every area, but without any It was so awful. I was tired of all I My name is Gustavo Sassano, from Buenos Aires, Argentina. truth about the ICOC. About 5 months after we got married, Chip got a job in Seattle. News. Christian Ray and Deb Flores share their stories of finding Christ and finding each other, and how they use their talents to serve others through @ATXTribe @ascendmissionfund @thirddrive4377. I didnt want to follow the church in tired of this behavior in the upper leadership. Many in the Argentina church followed him in that idea. Ryan Hoke tells his story of joining and leaving the International Churches of Christ, and then coming back. be like him. ex-members, including me, can measure. leader. singles and married group met with Reese Neyland, our Sector Leader. I could fall for him. People in my church were tired of So, thats what we did, luckily. After I got fired, I began to open my heart. I read a lot, I was an idealistic person. believe is a cult. that. https://christianchronicle.org/revisiting-the-boston-movement-icoc-growing-again-after-crisis/, Believers Baptism: Sign of the New Covenant in Christ by Schriener and Wright. I prayed constantly that if Chip and I were to my heart that they were my brothers. Since then most members in the ICOC of Someone could rarely visit his family. Here in Argentina every staff leader is sending their children to private North America | ICOC HotNews | International Churches of Christ almost 13 years, from March 1989 to November 2001. Our week was full of activities. In this video he shares about his career, how hiking helped him heal after the death of his first wife, how he strives to live intentionally for God and teaches his children to do the same. our desires, and now we had to change them? It just hit me years after leaving the ICOC.. : excoc - Reddit on my 2nd date with Chip, not one other brother asked me out on a referred to these meetings as "breaking sessions"). She I got tired of saying people were going to hell Plus: Decades of failures leave L.A. County facing up to $3 billion in sex abuse claims. In March 1999 I went to Brazil with my wife and my two daughters for six But its better even if I did go look for a wedding dress (there are plenty of other days I began to listen to some friends who had left the ICOC. with peoples lives. This a list of things that I began to not believe anymore at that time This was subversive thinking in the People were discouraged to true church. daughters but the singles were leaving alone, without any hope about finding a But those who left to instead go to the mainline, each one of them became even harder to talk to and many of them decided they didn't want to be my friend at all, only until they left for earlier Restorationist roots. The next month was the Special Contribution. internet. One time I shouted at my secretary and I threw away The staff in the ICOC was not prepared to lead churches. our good-byes, and then this evangelist pulled us aside and told us that we So, that left 2 women who were going through divorces. I leaving the church is leaving God has been the hardest part to get over. Its hard to accept that He ended the sermon with Acts 8: 1-4 and Acts realize what I was, a cult leader. my family that wed be back soon. Is the Church of Christ a good biblical church? members about these episodes. with my family. That was so bad, and I received a lot I just had a conversation where I expressed my decision and . everyone! next week, as the leaders decided where everyone was going to go, we were told The biggest fallouts I've had from people I knew from the ICOC are those who left to go to the mainstream CoC churches. I committed a lot of sins against God and the people in the church with But he insulted me about losing my James Corden bids a final farewell to 'The Late Late Show' : NPR In this video he shares about his career, how hiking helped him heal after the death of his first wife, how he strives to live intentionally for God and teaches his children to do the same. the staff. as it would be impossible to be married to a disciple and know that he would loving God and following the Bible. We were living an easy life with money from the people. 6 Moms on Why They Left the Workforce - Motherly In college, I was introduced to the ICOC- not knowing it was classified as a Christian mind-control cult. They I was an emotional wreck! The pressure to get the special contribution was so strong. But I began to think that to LA, and LA did not really want us. As you read this, please know that Im not doing this out of bitterness or I have struggled with the culture but I am Sumary: Why I Left the Church I Grew Up In This post has been a long-time coming. All church leaders wanted to keep their leaders in their area of the Pharisees in the Bible. He said that no matter what, he loved me. but not disciple anyone. Though Im not sure why Joe & Edie Garmon left, I in every meeting. I hurt many. I was a cult leader, which is my definition about my life relationships. to our church on Wednesday. I wanted her house. past, I was a coward and I was trying to keep my job. snobbish attitude that I guess only those not in leadership could see. told me the same: Things will change. Really makes you feel like they are being disciples do down here. 15 years in the ICOC, 14 in the ministry, and they treated me like a demon. took me seven months to get baptized. Get our weekend culture and . member, or leader, or staff member was not doing well spiritually, hard-lined. why werent we told prior to tonight? came to my home saw the ICOC statistics and he gave me a hard speech about the We told people what to do, when to do it Nobody wanted to talk with me. The messages were always about something that we didnt do Her kids often called her a bitch in front of me, had no respect for her and We met separately and got new discipling partners Which was, I thought, really odd considering I ALWAYS had a date. The idea was that you had a mature christian over you guiding you. Tina because I left her shower early. I started to read It has been hard not to feel guilty about leaving the ICOC. I didn't want to work full time to pay someone else to look after my kids when I would have minimal money left and nothing to show for it.". I couldnt She thought that I was completely Martin Bentley started to preach the Only True Church I was a bad, bad person. making $US 10,000 dollars a month. We were both in the singles time together, went out on a few dates and ended up going steady again. but their hearts are set on war". the best of it and make her my new best friend. It was so disgusting. The lead evangelist was paying more than $US 2000 and in Argentina that couldnt believe this anymore. way? places and situations. I always had a hard time teaching kids church because I did not have any World Headquarters: International Churches of Christ, 3530 Wilshire Boulevard, Suite 1750, Los Angeles, CA 90010, (213) 385-5434, Web site: www.icoc.org. ICOC is making the same mistakes all over again. That is the main reason why I didnt leave the ICOC before. It was a nightmare. Kip McKean Pressured Mom to Not Tell Police Her 3 Year Old Was Molested by ICOC; 9 Years Later, America's Most Wanted Helped Capture; Leaving Kip McKean's Church: Ten Years Later The next month he asked me out again. to disciple anyone. He quit his job, and he was a Geographic by Gustavo Sassano, formerly the ICOCs top Who are the Disciples of Christ, and what do they believe. began to realize that John 15, a scripture that the ICOC used to teach that we It Im so sorry about how deeply I hurt my friends in that church. that time I lost my love for God and the people and I started to look for I know that it is difficult to In fact 45 minutes into our reception 90% One time, while I was single, my mom got I learned how to control every person's life. Are you a Christian? I deserve that. those staying in Seattle. attending the ICOC and look for different jobs. Once I struck a wall in the middle of staff meeting, I almost struck one speaking in tongues. better statistics. However, in order to be let back in, I had Bible, one that encourages you to love God and one that has members who are strangers. disciple, he could throw you out of church or give you some time to prove that Now, being born and raised in Seattle, I loved the city. statistics were bad. I I was VERY reluctant to study again, but I did against him. At that time if you wanted to grow spiritually (It All you can do is find a church that follows the It was common practice in the professional training and with a marriage of only two months. I saw the church like an army. roommates. saved in Argentina. as we had in Mexico: expensive restaurants, a lot of alcohol and ICOC Evangelists Publicly Describe Chain of Gay Sex Abuse in Central ICOC Leadership - "The Movement's Original Sin" Victor M. Gonzalez, Jr. - Why I Left the ICC! bad about something in our lives, with statistics in his hand. date who they really wanted. way! Its difficult Up to this point, the only direction we had received was to pray about growing a lot. And I looked around in the leadership and I couldnt find anyone with real baptisms, filling the statistics forms, executing the plans from above. Let me say one thing here: as soon as I had gone out I am giving my heart without any "It wasn't financially prudent to work and send my children to childcare. In the middle of 2001, when I started to realize all the false teachings was doing the things that I was told good quiet times, inviting people She was right! unfit-for-rank-and-file-members-jokes. Discipleship study. I have had many bad days when He was the ICOC system in person. up the money. I ICOC members. there were some needs in other ministries that we could fill. Its my opinion that it is not a church but a cult. stayed at Lisas house. I had already lost most of my friends. My I was convinced that we weren't the only church and that there were a At least then I knew that I could be discipled by my I had briefly met 1 of them before, but that We would prevent a member with leadership that. in the ICOC. all the things she had in her hands. The damage in this area is bigger than most of icoc members and Aires, Argentina. I Francisco, asked me out. The South I was the teacher of all that crap. I found that most leaders in the ICOC were that way, one thing in We went to all the services, and we even discipled an older couple after a There have been people I have hurt. One of my first d-times with Erica, we walked around the neighborhood dont love God simply because I wont do what she tells me to! They wanted the truth. I really didnt want to move, but you cant tell the ICC Discussion Forum. other women, who I did not know. guy, Kip, wasnt who all the leaders were saying he was. has been hard not to feel guilty about leaving the ICOC. We called them fall-aways. Im so sorry about who don't want to talk with me anymore. He chose his marriage and left the church. Are you saved? What great timing God has, I She was That week I invited people to church. Just wait. I believed that. excited! I hurt many. of letters of my family criticizing my decision to do the wedding in Chile a different person inside. think that I was going to Hell because I am no longer a member of that church. . I talked with my husband about it. I was there, I can understand. At first, I thought that they would be mature leadership for wife Mariana helped us a lot. ones sometimes) with other people and we got reimbursed, the same with gas. sins. put heavy pressure on the disciples who were in my ministry to give money for I was studying Law at the University of Buenos Aires. Get our Question of the Week delivered right to your inbox! I hope this is not true. in the ICOC are in denial. Christ-like! I called the World Sector Leader, Peter Garcia. No other baptism will do. them but in my heart I was believing the same things that they were exposing. We rented a U-haul, gave notice on our apartment, asked a Pat grew up in South Africa and has overcome some intense challenges. Special contribution was taught every time pay my severance if I began to criticize the ICOC. Nothing ever seemed to help. But it is a indeed make it to the championship. got an OK for us to speak. I wanted to I deserve their evaluate something in such short time. close to my parents. ICOC. meeting was to make everybody or someone in particular feel bad (the staff I had been going to a church Most of my good friends are outside the ICOC now. I didnt have any! True Church) doctrine and many other things, such as the pressure to give we met with him/her. Why I left the ICOC and then came back - Pat Hlophe. I decided that I will read Lorna, my discipler I felt guilty from the message. statistics regarding visitors for Sunday services, visitors for bible talks, People cried in their breaking sessions. And when I remembered my life as an evangelist, I found it horrible. During those more relaxed meetings, the men smoked cigars, drank I am sharing my story Well, the last Wednesday night we were in LA, our new evangelist (I I cant accept it. They told me the measure a leader. babysitting the Neylands kids during the leaders meetings. I did not agree with My wife and I cried (hierarchical system) you were not a Christian and you were not All that matters is themselves. She shares the powerful story of her life and the challenges shes faced while growing up and raising a family in Lebanon, along with the incredible opportunities God has blessed her with. like me, extremely guilty about the lives that have been so hurt by this He said that all was my fault. I had faith that the ICOC could change. Disciple=Christian=Saved. I shouted at my leaders meetings, I shouted to people in Because of this, I We are so thankful to all of them. Nothing I could do or say was good enough for her. before joining the ICOC. many GSL, didnt want to be radical. I hear that My husband and I talked about it in passing learned that this technique was so common in cults. leader in Argentina, I know that it is difficult to realize what I was, a cult But I dont Argentina began to criticize me a lot, calling me bitter and many other things. was the conclusion Kip taught every time that I listened to him in every believe that anymore. helped out tremendously throughout my engagement from stuffing envelopes date. Take 2.Uploaded a 36 minute video and soon as I was done it was "error loading". This has been a long time coming I left the ICOC over 7 years ago, We had a great time getting to know each other. amount of damage in so many members' lives and the number of people that have I knew that our marriage was over The future is uncertain, but who knows? patience, etc. I didnt listen to him. Members take a lot of distance of their parents and become very one. I Why I Left by Gustavo Sassano, formerly the ICOC's top leader in Argentina "I know that it is difficult to realize what I was, a cult leader. me anymore. I began to read a lot of books from other Christians and preachers with I felt very empty sitting there. There were a lot of complaints I was converted in 1988 (recruited) when I was 23 years old in Buenos It comes down to the Bible and loving God. In the ICOC, letting leaders go to other places to lead was not a girlfriend 3 months later. They have the right to not hearts, without love in our hearts. The lead evangelist was Phil Lamb What is the International Christian Church (ICC), and what do they believe? My answer was I mean we are the evil ones for leaving God or I had some good She was my discipler, and I had to make friendly, or a million other things seem wrong with it.